Any King Cleveland historians out there? Just bought a King Cleveland Tenor, serial # C 78XXX.
Does this make it a a pre-Eastlake? What's the difference between the 50s models and the later models? Yes, it was made in Cleveland, indicated by the C preface in the serial #. I have a C709xx HN White Cleveland tenor. Your horn and mine were manufactured between '55-'60 in the Cleveland factory. Serials are posted on the HN White site, under Cleveland Band Instruments.
The keys are made of brass. It is relatively lightly sprung and the action is slick. Its tone holes are hard soldered like Zephyrs and S20s, and appear to be twice as thick than those, for example, of a Buescher Aristocrat. The engraving on mine sports a marching hat and crossed drum sticks, with CLEVELAND in block letters above it. I've posted a bit more about my Cleveland tenor in a couple of other Cleveland threads. It plays much better than my '70s King Cleveland 615 USA, that had cludgy niickel plated key work, in comparison. Just to note.
I think any 5-digit Cleveland model was produced in Cleveland.I think Eastlake production began in '63.around serial C150,000 I agree, the Cleveland-Cleveland horns are fantastic. The Eastlake ones aren't bad at all, either (same body tube design, but the metal gets lighter as the years go on), but agree that the keywork changes were not beneficial.
Just bought a King Cleveland Tenor, serial # C 78XXX. I have a Cleveland tenor, inverted acorn engraving, with serial number C166***.
Eevn though the older Cleves have very old-school looking keywork, I find them to be ergonomically better and more responsive than the 'redesigned' work. Also, the lacquer quality is poorer coming out of Eastlake. I always sell these really quickly, because people are stoked about owning a horn like these for such a relatively bargain price. The switch from Cleveland to Eastlake (at least on the engraving) happened around C200000. This would have been in 1965 or early 1966, most likely. The C prefix really doesn't mean anything (as far as I know) outside of noting it being the Cleveland serial line and not the main King one (which didn't help since the prefix didn't always appear).
Most Cleveland instruments built by H.N. White have the C prefix but some don't. It starts getting pretty intermittent around C180000, and the highest I've come across is C233xxx. The earliest Eastlakes retained the 'inverted acorn' engraving of the late H.N. White era, but with 'King Musical Instruments' and 'Eastlake, Ohio' in it. Oh okay - I think I've learned a lot about these in the past week.
That would be a pre-Eastlake. Looks like maybe the second bell engraving they did (after the band hat/drum stick like I have)? Early Eastlakes are engraved, 'Eastlake, OH' - and I believe the early ones had the Empire State-looking building. That's my recollection, too.the first couple of years of Eastlake horns read 'Eastlake'. BTW.it's commonly referred to as the 'Clocktower Engraving', although our resident Cleveland native, TommyD, gives us a proper history lesson: 'Based on your description of the engraving. The only building in Cleveland (from that era) that fits your description would be the 'Terminal Tower' (and NO it's not sick). The Terminal Tower was the tallest building downtown since it was built (up until a couple of decades ago).
The Terminal Tower had and still does have offices in it, the main train terminal was in the basement of the building (which is where it got it's name from), and Higbees department store was also part of the building complex on the ground floor.' Now, I thought the 'Clocktower' engraving came before the Acorn engraving.thus the 'Clocktower' horns are Cleveland-made Clevelands.no????? I would bet my bank account that those are Cleveland Clevelands.and that the Clocktower didn't make it far into the 60's, if it got there at all.
Got the sax back today. My tech guy was really impressed with the subtone he was able to get out of it. I'm totally blown away.great intonation, the ergo is surprisingly comfortable. Total cost including tech set up was $220. This is going to be my main horn for a while!:) These horns have no negatives, really.
They sound fantastic, blow freely, are intoned well, are built well, and (despite the keywork having an old style look) the ergos are nice and comfy. You scored a winner, enjoy!!! The 'Clocktowers' were Cleveland made and proceeded the 'Acorn' variety, as I've owned both. I do not recall the serial number of the Clocktower tenor I owned about 5 years ago, as I rarely record the serial numbers of horns I buy and sell (except for perhaps in my memory), but I recall looking it up on a chart at the time and that it dated to the late '50s. But the Clocktower iteration has a terrible LH table reminiscent of a Chu or Selmer Super, with a low Bb that can induce early arthritus. In fact, this latter feature is why I sold it.
But otherwise, it had all brass keys that were pretty quiet and slick. The last Cleveland I owned last year was an Acorn that I dated to 1962 and it sounded just as good as the Clocktower. However, the nickel keywork was definitely clunkier and noisier than the Clocktower. I guess if I had to choose, though, I would take an early '60s Cleveland and try to quiet down the keywork in order to get the improved LH table, which is the one they stuck with through the Eastlake era. Still playing my Cleveland C141xxx that was bought new and given to me for my Birthday in 1963. After storing it from 1972 until this year I started seriously playing again.
New Pads and adjustment, Fresh Reeds (LOL) started with a 1-1/2 now using #2's and can probibly move up to a 2-1/2 as my chops are coming along. This is the only Tenor I have ever played and I have no need to look for something better. I'm not hearing or reading any serious negatives about the Cleveland made horns, and appreciate this information very much. So, it sounds like I have one of the last Cleveland Ohio made Tenors. It has Chrome Keys and the Bell is the ACORN, so C141xxx with this Bell was a Cleveland made not an Eastlake I beleive.